Xenon1898 | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:05:09
基于以下原因:每个俄罗斯人都要对这场战争负责(俄国人没有一个是无辜的!)每个俄罗斯人都要对这场战争负责的原因
As McDonald's, Victoria's Secret and PlayStation pull out of the Russian market, Russians (at least those still not banned on social media) are increasingly asking: What does all this have to do with regular people? Why do they have to do without IKEA, and why are Ukrainians suddenly mad at them?
随着麦当劳、维多利亚的秘密和PlayStation退出俄罗斯市场,俄罗斯人(至少是那些仍未被禁止使用社交媒体的人)越来越多地问。这一切与普通人有什么关系?为什么他们必须没有宜家,为什么乌克兰人突然对他们生气?
The part of Russia’s population that doesn’t love Putin is trying hard to distance itself from the bombing of Ukrainian maternity hospitals. They are trying to convince themselves — and the world — that ordinary Russians are good, they just have this evil ruler. Detector Media has collated the most common excuses, and explains why they do not work.
俄罗斯人口中不爱普京的那部分人正在努力与轰炸乌克兰妇产医院的行为保持距离。他们正试图说服自己--以及世界--普通俄罗斯人是好的,他们只是有这个邪恶的统治者。探测器媒体整理了最常见的借口,并解释了为什么这些借口不起作用。
“Putin does not equal Russia.”
"普京不等于俄罗斯"。
As long as Putin runs the country, and the people acknowledge him as a legitimate president and obey his orders, Putin represents Russia.
只要普京管理国家,人民承认他是合法的总统并服从他的命令,普京就代表俄罗斯。
“Putin is to be blamed, not Russians.”
"应该指责普京,而不是俄罗斯人"。
It was not Putin who came to Ukraine riding a tank, nor 190,000 of his clones: it was 190,000 Russians. Russians hit houses in Kyiv, Russians fired rockets at the center of Kharkiv, and Russians engaged in shelling during evacuation attempts from Sumy, Chernihiv, Bucha, and Irpin.
开着坦克来到乌克兰的不是普京,也不是他的19万个克隆人:是19万个俄罗斯人。俄罗斯人袭击了基辅的房屋,俄罗斯人向哈尔科夫市中心发射火箭,俄罗斯人在试图从苏梅、切尔尼戈夫、布卡和伊尔平撤离时进行了炮击。
The tens of thousands of OMON and police officers who detain people at peaceful rallies, the State Duma members, the huge machine of bureaucracy — all are Russians acting in support of Putin's decision, or simply following what appear to be criminal orders.
在和平集会中拘留民众的数万名OMON和警察、国家杜马成员、庞大的官僚机构机器--所有这些都是俄罗斯人在支持普京的决定,或者只是遵循看似犯罪的命令。
Russians develop and build weapons for Russia. Russians work for its propaganda machine: TV presenters, “journalists,” bloggers, and opinion leaders who readily agreed to promote the recent constitutional amendments. Russians spread Kremlin rhetoric for money, or simply out of sheer enthusiasm, writing “You have been bombing Donbas for eight years” under every online post.
俄罗斯人为俄罗斯开发和制造武器。俄罗斯人为其宣传机器工作。电视主持人、"记者"、博客和意见领袖,他们欣然同意宣传最近的宪法修正案。俄罗斯人为了钱而传播克里姆林宫的言论,或者仅仅是出于纯粹的热情,在每一个网上帖子下写下 "你们轰炸顿巴斯已经八年了"。
Russians support and legitimize the occupation of Crimea. According to Russian statistics, 6.3 million tourists visited the peninsula in 2020 alone, and many Russian entertainers have performed at Crimean resorts.
俄罗斯人支持对克里米亚的占领并使之合法化。根据俄罗斯的统计数据,仅在2020年就有630万游客访问了该半岛,许多俄罗斯艺人在克里米亚的度假村进行了表演。
“These all are the personal ambitions of one senile madman.”
"这些都是一个衰老的疯子的个人野心"。
When we reduce the Russian aggression to Putin's personal ambitions, we are ignoring centuries of Ukrainian history. Russia sought to seize Ukrainian lands, destroy our culture, and deny the existence of Ukraine as a separate nation under various political regimes. This story did not start with Putin and it will not end with his death.
当我们把俄罗斯的侵略简化为普京的个人野心时,我们就忽略了几个世纪以来的乌克兰历史。俄罗斯试图夺取乌克兰的土地,摧毁我们的文化,并在各种政治制度下否认乌克兰作为一个独立国家的存在。这个故事并不是从普京开始的,也不会随着他的死亡而结束。
Being anti-Putin and anti-war does not necessarily mean that a person does not have imperial views – that they do not believe the historical myths of a single nation, Russia as an “older brother,” lands “donated” to Ukraine, and the like. Russians continue to engage in this rhetoric both in Russia and abroad. According to a CNN poll, 64% of Russian respondents consider Ukrainians and Russians to be one people. In Ukraine, this figure is much lower: 28%.
反普京和反战并不一定意味着一个人没有帝国主义的观点--他们不相信单一国家的历史神话,俄罗斯是 "兄长",土地 "捐赠 "给乌克兰,等等。俄罗斯人在俄罗斯国内和国外都继续进行这种言论。根据CNN的民意调查,64%的俄罗斯受访者认为乌克兰人和俄罗斯人是一个民族。在乌克兰,这一数字要低得多:28%。
“People are against war.”
"人们反对战争"。
It is extremely difficult to obtain independent polling data in Russia; it could show actual support for military aggression against Ukraine. It is also inaccurate to form an impression based on individual posts and comments on social media. However, according to the CNN poll, 50% of Russians believe it is appropriate to use military force to keep Ukraine from joining NATO.
在俄罗斯获得独立的民调数据是极其困难的;它可能显示对军事侵略乌克兰的实际支持。根据社交媒体上的个别帖子和评论形成印象也是不准确的。然而,根据CNN的民意调查,50%的俄罗斯人认为使用军事力量阻止乌克兰加入北约是合适的。
43% of respondents believe it is wrong to use military force in order to unite Russia and Ukraine. But 36% support this idea. It is not only Putin and a small, marginal group of his supporters who are in favor, but a third of the people in this survey.
43%的受访者认为,为了统一俄罗斯和乌克兰而使用军事力量是错误的。但36%的人支持这一想法。赞成的不仅仅是普京和他的一小部分边缘支持者,而是这次调查中三分之一的人。
“We support peace, we say ‘no war.’”
"我们支持和平,我们说'没有战争'。"
These slogans do not necessarily mean that a person condemns the Russian aggression. They can mean very different things for different people: from “Russia must retreat,” to “Ukraine must surrender,” “Both parties are to blame,” “The West started it all,” “We had no choice,” and so on. A striking example is the open letter by Russian TV anchor Ksenia Sobchak, in which she writes about her fear of nuclear war. “No global geopolitical interests can be more important than the simple, peaceful life of millions of people!! Vladimir and Vladimir! Concede to each other today!!!” These are the words of a person who is often regarded as a “good” and liberal Russian. She broadcasts to her audience of nine million people the idea that Ukraine, which has been attacked, must concede.
这些口号并不一定意味着一个人谴责俄罗斯的侵略行为。对不同的人来说,它们可能意味着非常不同的事情:从 "俄罗斯必须撤退",到 "乌克兰必须投降","双方都有责任","西方开始了这一切","我们没有选择",等等。一个引人注目的例子是俄罗斯电视主播克谢尼娅-索布恰克的公开信,她在信中写到她对核战争的恐惧。"没有什么全球地缘政治利益能比数百万人的简单、和平生活更重要!"。弗拉基米尔和弗拉基米尔! 今天向对方让步吧!!" 这是一个通常被认为是 "好的 "和自由主义的俄罗斯人所说的话。她向她的900万观众广播了这样的观点:受到攻击的乌克兰必须让步。
“I personally am not shooting at anyone.”
"我个人并没有向任何人开枪"。
Everyone who lives, works, or does business in Russia is financing this war. Putin does not personally buy Grads, or pay the Wagner group with his own money; it is all paid for out of the national budget. In 2022, Russia planned to allocate 3.5 trillion rubles, or 15% of all budget expenditure, for “national defense.” Not every Russian pulls the trigger, but everyone buys ammunition.
每个在俄罗斯生活、工作或做生意的人都在资助这场战争。普京个人并没有购买格拉德,也没有用自己的钱支付瓦格纳集团的费用,这一切都由国家预算支付。2022年,俄罗斯计划拨出3.5万亿卢布,或所有预算支出的15%,用于 "国防"。不是每个俄罗斯人都扣动扳机,但每个人都购买弹药。
“We did not elect him.”
"我们没有选举他"。
We do not know the real level of support for Putin and his actions, as elections in Russia can hardly be considered fair and democratic. But the problem of authoritarianism in Russia did not arise on February 24, as Putin has been in power for 22 years. And those who did not elect him made the choice to be apolitical – the choice to take no public stance, to avoid controversial topics in their work, in social media posts, in conversations with the family. Silently tolerating crime is also a choice. This is criminal inaction.
我们不知道对普京及其行动的真正支持程度,因为俄罗斯的选举很难说是公平和民主的。但俄罗斯的独裁主义问题并没有在2月24日出现,因为普京已经执政22年了。而那些没有选举他的人做出了非政治化的选择--选择不采取公开立场,在工作中、在社交媒体的帖子中、在与家人的交谈中避免有争议的话题。沉默地容忍犯罪也是一种选择。这是犯罪的不作为。
“They didn’t know where they were going.”
"他们不知道他们要去哪里"。
We have already found evidence this whole “we don’t know” thing is merely an enemy tactic, and that the occupiers had been preparing for an invasion. For example, here are the plans for taking over Ukraine in 15 days. And here is the testimony of a prisoner who describes how the occupiers intended to take Kharkiv in three days.
我们已经找到了证据,这整个 "我们不知道 "的事情只是敌人的策略,占领者一直在为入侵做准备。例如,这里有15天内占领乌克兰的计划。而这里是一名囚犯的证词,他描述了占领者如何打算在三天内占领哈尔科夫。
This full-scale war has been going on for two weeks. Are Russian soldiers still unaware of where they are going? They don’t know who they are shooting, they don’t know where the cruise missiles end up? It seems that they may well know, they just don’t care.
这场全面战争已经进行了两个星期。俄罗斯士兵是否仍然不知道他们要去哪里?他们不知道自己在射杀谁,不知道巡航导弹的最终去向?似乎他们很可能知道,他们只是不关心。
“We cannot change anything.”
"我们不能改变什么"。
It is scary and dangerous to protest in Russia now. However, Ukrainians are not persuaded by this, as we know from our own experience how hard it is to obtain freedom.
现在在俄罗斯进行抗议是很可怕的,也很危险。然而,乌克兰人并没有被这句话说服,因为我们从自己的经验中知道,获得自由是多么的困难。
Over the years, Russians could have changed many things, aside from the government itself. For example, people could start to shake off the comatose, “apolitical” national mindset. Or study media literacy. Until recently, Russia had Internet access to international media and social media. People there could access Ukrainian websites, most of which have versions in Russian. They had eight years to make sense of how Crimea was seized, and who was shooting whom in the territory of Donbas.
多年来,除了政府本身,俄罗斯人可以改变很多东西。例如,人们可以开始摆脱昏迷的、"非政治化 "的民族心态。或者学习媒体素养。直到最近,俄罗斯还能通过互联网访问国际媒体和社交媒体。那里的人们可以访问乌克兰的网站,其中大部分网站都有俄语版本。他们有八年的时间来了解克里米亚是如何被夺取的,以及谁在顿巴斯境内向谁开枪。
People had time to unfollow all the Kremlin's mouthpieces, paid bloggers, and political pundits. They had time to make sure reputation meant something in Russia, which would mean that celebrities like Nikolay Baskov, who actively supports the authoritarian regime, would not get the popularity and admiration they currently have.
人们有时间取消对克里姆林宫所有喉舌、付费博客和政治专家的关注。他们有时间确保声誉在俄罗斯是有意义的,这意味着像尼古拉-巴斯科夫这样积极支持独裁政权的名人将不会得到他们目前拥有的人气和崇拜。
They had time to learn to use the correct prepositions with Ukraine, confirming that it is an actual country. Unless, of course, you can get arrested for this, too.
他们有时间学习使用正确的介词与乌克兰,确认它是一个实际的国家。当然,除非你也能因此被逮捕。
“What have athletes/artists/cats done wrong? Why should they be banned from international events?”
"运动员/艺术家/猫做错了什么?为什么他们应该被禁止参加国际活动?"
They represent Russia on the international stage — the state that has invaded independent Ukraine and is killing people there. And they are waving the flag that the occupiers dream of flying over Ukrainian cities. They even draw a “Z” on their uniform, which has already become a symbol of the occupiers’ troops.
他们在国际舞台上代表俄罗斯--那个入侵独立的乌克兰并在那里杀人的国家。而且他们挥舞的是占领者梦想在乌克兰城市上空飘扬的旗帜。他们甚至在制服上画了一个 "Z",这已经成为占领者部队的象征。
“I am not ashamed.”
"我并不感到羞耻"。
If you spend enough time on social media, you may feel like you don’t know what is going on anymore. On the one hand, you find the world with the hashtags #Мненестыдно (#Im_not_ashamed), #СвоихНеБросаем (#we_dont_give_up_on_our_people), #stoprussianhate. The Russians of this world are proud of their origins, country, culture, strong army, and the president.
如果你在社交媒体上花了足够的时间,你可能会觉得你不知道发生了什么。一方面,你发现这个世界的标签是#Мненестыдно(#我不感到羞耻),#СвоихНеБросаем(#我们不要放弃我们的人民),#stoprussianhate。这个世界上的俄罗斯人为他们的出身、国家、文化、强大的军队和总统感到骄傲。
On the other hand, there is a world with “ordinary people” who “have not chosen anything and cannot change anything” under every photo of bombed Ukrainian cities, under every appeal to Russia. But there is only one reality: you cannot be great and disempowered at the same time. You cannot take ballet and Dostoevsky and leave out corruption, OMON, and the bombing of Kharkiv. This is all their Russia.
另一方面,这个世界上的 "普通人 "在每一张被轰炸的乌克兰城市的照片下,在每一次对俄罗斯的呼吁下,"没有选择什么,也不能改变什么"。但只有一个现实:你不可能同时成为伟大的人和失去权力的人。你不能拿着芭蕾舞和陀思妥耶夫斯基而不考虑腐败、OMON和哈尔科夫的轰炸。这就是他们所有的俄罗斯。
Of course, not all Russians are evil, not all of them are even guilty of this war. But everyone identifying with Russia bears a responsibility for it. At this point, saying #notowar is not enough to escape the war.
当然,不是所有的俄罗斯人都是邪恶的,甚至不是所有的俄罗斯人都对这场战争有罪。但每个认同俄罗斯的人都对它负有责任。在这一点上,说#不打仗#并不足以逃避战争。
[-] luyuan00000 | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:36:25
我还记得那个参与过二战的老奶奶在大街上举牌反战的视频,汁拿也有义士举牌呼吁反战,只能说一国之大不能一言以蔽之。考验一个国家是否文明和强大不应该看它有多少武器多少兵力,而是看它的人民是否真的有作为一个人类的尊严和认知。
[-] EbregiselGamwich | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:37:24
这是俄国五毛写的吧。
要是每个俄罗斯人都要对这个战争负责,那俄罗斯人除了跟普京绑定在一起把战争进行到底还有什么选择?
反过来说,azov是纳粹,过去八年在顿巴斯战争里有联合国和HWR记录过的犯有战胜罪的行为,每个乌克兰人都要负责吗?那普京上乌克兰“去纳粹化”岂不是成了正义的战争了?
[-] Hongkongjai | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 01:08:48
CNN: 一半人支持軍事防止烏克蘭加入北約
OP: 俄國人沒有一個是無辜的
同樣是OP: 甚至不是所有的俄羅斯人都對這場戰爭有罪
然後內文甚至是想把在俄國出生,生存都說成原罪了。是想把🕷的概念強加在俄國上。
[-] lmaosoleum | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:53:48
俄罗斯浪人妈妈对图鹅做出重要指示
[-] nosinabuta | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 02:22:20
我认为把紫蜡烛的原罪照搬到俄罗斯身上有所不妥
毕竟俄罗斯国内的反抗力量哪怕是以卵击石也一直在努力抗争
在海外的俄罗斯人(包括名人)反战,捐款,参加乌克兰义勇兵的都有很多
哪像紫蜡烛
论索多玛,俄罗斯比紫蜡差了好几个数量级
[-] the_banishee | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 03:05:49
少发情了
[-] JoeDoe_DD | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 10:48:09
“Vladimir and Vladimir!”
这个我才注意到,虽然Zelensky的名字在英文中一般根据乌克兰语的罗马化译作Volodymyr,但其实俄语拼写Владимир和普京一样,都是Vladimir。
[-] eat_fully_gym_hardly | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:15:30
没有一个毛子是无辜的,就像南边的蜘蛛
[-] Xenon1898 | 1 points | Mar 24 2022 00:28:13
这也是我为什么支持大翻译运动的原因:要让世界知道,认同中国的人,就算没有实施邪恶,也不会出来制止,没有一个是无辜的!