henanpunk | 1 points | Jul 19 2021 06:45:26

對中幻想破滅，美兩黨政策更趨一致–美國務院首席中國策略顧問余茂春

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dipotic5NsI 對中幻想破滅，美兩黨政策更趨一致–美國務院首席中國策略顧問余茂春

---

[Music] listen to xi jinping [音乐] 听习 金平

he has tremendous hubris and his commitment to 他有极大的傲慢和 对

communist ideology is unshaken he's talking every day in china about 共产主义意识形态的承诺坚定不移他 在中国每天都在谈论

tuition don't forget that your original commitment 学费 不要忘记你的最初 承诺

what is the original commitment basically is the communist ideology 什么是最初的承诺 基本上是共产主义意识形态

miao xiu chief china strategist in the state department during the trump 苗秀首席中国战略家 在 特朗普政府期间的国务院中，

administration unpacks china and the communist party 中国和

the chinese communist marxist leninist commitment 共产党揭开了中国共产党马克思列宁主义

to that kind of ideology to make china the leader the leading 对这种意识形态的 承诺，使中国成为

force of the ultimate triumph of global 全球社会主义最终胜利的领导力量

socialism america is a country of consequence 美国是一个重要的国家，

we're the country that was most generous whenever 我们是 世界上发生自然灾害时最慷慨的国家

there is a natural disasters in the world that occur

and the world has to have the united states ，世界必须让

at the forefront for freedom [Music] 美国站在自由的最前沿 [音乐]

thank you dr you for joining zumi in china today my pleasure 谢谢你 今天加入中国的 zumi 我很高兴

you talked about this new strategy that the trump administration has developed 你谈论这个新的 特朗普政府制定的战略

i was wondering is that a whole government a strategy to deal with china 我想知道整个 政府是一种战略 与中国打交道

kind of like what china has been doing for all these years they have 有点像中国 这些年来一直在做的事情，他们有

policy consistency and long-term goals the u.s does not what about now 政策一致性和长期目标， 美国现在不怎么样，

okay so united states is a country of diverse political interest groups 所以美国是一个 政治利益集团多元化的国家，

and the country does not really act on unanimity of opinions and you have so 而这个国家实际上并没有 根据意见一致采取行动，

many political forces at play at any given moment so 在任何特定时刻都有如此多的政治力量在起作用，所以

when we say whole of government and is not the same as the whole of society 当我们说整个政府而 不是整个社会时，

government and society are separated in the united states 政府和社会 在美国

because of democracy i can tell you though 因为民主而分离，我可以说 你 虽然

it is a whole of government when i was in the government under trump 我在特朗普政府的时候是整个政府 ，但

administration virtually every agency of the united 实际上

states government federal government uh had a 美国 联邦政府的每个机构都

very clear understanding of the danger the chinese communist proposed to the 非常清楚 中国共产党向美国提出的危险

united states and i think you know under the ，我想你知道

leadership of president trump and particularly secretary pompeo 特朗普总统 ，特别是国务院国务卿蓬佩奥

in the state department our foreign policy 的领导，我们的外交 政策

uh has a very clear understanding of the nature of the 呃有一个非常清楚的 理解 中国共产党的性质，

chinese communist party and have a very clear understanding of 并且对我们所面临的事情有非常清楚的了解，

what we're facing so yes there was a whole of government 所以是的，有一个完整的政府，

but i have to qualify to to say uh to follow immediately 但我必须有 资格说呃立即跟进，

though that is the united states government 尽管 这是美国政府

is limited in power because it is constitutional democracy 在 权力，因为它是

with the whole of government that doesn't necessarily mean that government 整个政府的宪政民主，这 并不一定意味着政府

can do whatever it wants we as a government 可以 为所欲为我们作为一个政府

cannot really tell say the companies in silicon valley what to do wanted to 无法真正告诉说 硅谷的公司想要做

do um as long as they do not violate the 什么，只要他们不 违反

u.s laws so i think you know uh that is actually 美国法律 所以我想你知道呃这实际上

one of the major inadequacies of democracy one of the 是民主的主要 不足之一

challenges that the democracy faces when dealing with 民主在与极权政权打交道时面临的挑战之一

totalitarian regimes the chinese government as you mentioned 正如你之前提到的中国

earlier has total control of human and material resources they could do a lot 政府完全控制人力和 物力资源 做

of things cj means has been saying you know 很多事情 cj 的 意思是说你知道

we can master uh all our forces and resources to do big things and i 我们可以掌握呃我们所有的力量 和资源来做大事，我

think you know that's a challenge on the other hand 想你 知道 “另一方面

though there's one advantage on our side that is this is a country of ，这是一个挑战，尽管我们这边有一个优势，那就是这是一个拥有

incredible creativity and ingenuity we can all 令人难以置信的创造力 和独创性的国家，我们都

be one step two step ahead of our adversaries and that has been proven too 可以比我们的对手领先一步两步

for the last 200 plus years so we're not totally ，过去 200 多年也证明了这一点，所以 我们

out of place in our response to china and i think you know i remember very 对中国的回应并非完全不合适 ，我想你知道我记得我

optimistic in that okay talk this is a very 在那次谈话中非常乐观 这是一个非常

interesting area because people have been trying to compare 有趣的领域 因为 人们一直试图比较

whether a totalitarian regime using all their resources to the 极权主义政权是否 将所有资源都用于

government decide which direction we should 政府 决定我们

go in terms of innovation industrial policies and stuff like that 应该在创新产业 政策和类似方面走哪个方向，

would that be a more effective approach than in the free society in 这会 比资本主义的自由社会更有效，

capitalism you let the private sector to decide where you want 你让 私营部门决定你

to go which what do you think free market system has 想去哪里， 你认为自由市场体系是什么

enormous enormous potential it has a great advantage 潜力巨大

over non-market economy a non-market orientated society 比非市场经济有很大优势 非市场 导向的社会

having said that and there is a precondition for free market to operate 话虽如此，但有一个 前提 自由市场运作

that is it has to be operated in the open society 即它必须在 开放社会中运作，

once you have the open society you create opportunities for your 一旦您拥有开放社会，您就会 为您的对手创造机会，

adversaries take advantage right so and that brings up another 从而充分利用这一点，这带来了另一个

question that is how do you protect your vital industries 问题，即

as a government its primary responsibility is to practice your own 作为政府，您如何保护您的重要行业？ 首要 责任是实践你自己的

critical industry and to protect your own people 关键产业 并保护你自己的人民

and the most permanent the most sort of pernicious danger to that kind ，而这种缺乏保护的最永久最 有害的危险

of a lack of protection comes from china 来自中国，

china has been pilfering the technologies 中国一直在窃取

particularly critical military industrial and trade 关键的军工技术 和商业

secrets of united states technologies for decades 机密。 几十年来美国的技术 ，

so it is absolutely imperative for the us government 因此美国政府绝对有

to immediately impose some kind of specific steps 必要立即采取某种 具体措施

to protect ourselves and i think the trump machine did 来保护我们自己，我认为 特朗普机器所做的

did more than any other previous administrations in my memory 比 我记忆中的任何其他前任政府都做得更多

and i think we basically put so many critical infrastructure ，我认为我们基本上投入了这么多 关键基础设施

um under our protection and our fbi's and a lot of law enforcement agencies 嗯在我们的保护下，我们的联邦调查局 和很多法律 执法

have stepped up its measures against chinese espionage 机构加强了针对 中国

against their military and industrial staff and we also have enacted 对其军事和工业 人员的间谍活动的措施，我们还制定

several self-protection trade policies and president trump 了一些自我保护的 贸易政策，特朗普总统

basically say you're tariff right so that's actually protect a lot of 基本上说你是对的， 所以这实际上保护了很多

american industries we also forced china to follow certain 美国工业， 我们也强迫中国 遵守

rules that they promised it would uh that's 他们承诺的某些规则，呃，这是

the basic the essence of the phase one trade talk with china is not 与中国第一阶段贸易谈判的基本本质，不仅仅是

just about how much goods that chinese should buy 中国应该

from america from america it's actually about how 从美国购买多少商品，实际上是

china's systemic unfair policies and its institutional uh uh 中国的系统性不公平政策 及其制度性呃 呃

flaws affect the chinese u.s economic and trade uh relationship 缺陷影响了 中美经贸呃关系

so we forced china to comply to that and had not had not been covered and we 所以我们强迫中国遵守那个 并且没有被覆盖我们

would have seen a tremendous progress in that 会 看到这方面的巨大进步

regard particularly when it comes to enforcement 特别是在 执法

uh stage so uh so to answer the question in a very sort 阶段所以呃 所以回答 这个问题以一种非常

of detour way uh yes we have to do it but first and 绕道的方式，嗯， 是的，我们必须这样做，但首先，

foremost we have to protect ourselves so this protection is first step 我们有 保护我们自己所以 这种保护是第一步

so doctor you would you say on the level playing field 所以医生你会说在公平的 竞争环境

the american system with innovation strong innovation free economy 中创新 强大的创新自由经济的美国体系

can all compete the chinese system absolutely okay yeah because um 都可以与中国体系竞争 绝对没问题是因为

a open system like the one the united states has 嗯像美国这样的开放体系

can actually number one incentivize chinese 实际上第一可以激励 中国

people so that can unleash tremendous ingenuity and creativity and so 人，从而可以释放出巨大的 聪明才智和创造力，所以

um uh i think that chinese people are also pursuing that 嗯，我认为中国人 也在追求这一点

and that's one of the reasons why chinese economy has grown so much ，这就是为什么 中国经济在近几十年来增长如此之快的原因之一，

in the recent decades you are so right about that yeah yeah so 你说得 对 是的，是的，

that's the only thing you did the most important thing we have to keep in mind 这是你唯一做的 事情，

about china's economic system is that virtually the entire growth economic 关于中国的经济体系，我们必须牢记的最重要的事情是， 几乎整个增长的经济

growth comes from uh the private non-state 增长 都来自呃私人非国有

sectors so the the government-run soes 部门， 所以政府运营的国有企业

almost none of them is actually uh profitable so they're they're basically 几乎没有 其中一些实际上是 有利可图的所以他们基本上

they're parasitical in a way even though we study monopoly with tremendous 是寄生在某种程度上即使 我们研究垄断 巨大的

subsidies and still is not really performing so in a 补贴， 但在公平竞争的自由市场体系中仍然没有真正表现得如此

free market system in a a level playing field

and those companies should not exist and that's where ，那些公司不应该存在，

that's why private system private uh entrepreneurial system will 这就是为什么私人系统 私人呃创业系统

ultimately triumph this is basically the major ethos of 最终会胜利 这基本上是现代历史的主要精神

modern history anybody who that goes against that has 任何人 反其道而行之，

failed so what the chinese government has done 所以中国政府所做的

is to use state power to selectively promote 就是利用 国家权力有选择地促进

uh non-portfolio sector under its total control 其完全控制下的非投资组合部门，

and use the international free market system to benefit 并利用国际自由市场 体系

to reap the benefits of the free market system 从中受益，在全球范围内获得自由市场体系的好处

globally and that's why if we take action collectively say at the wto 和 这就是为什么如果 我们在世贸组织和所有七国集团采取集体行动

and all the g7 and we basically try to stop ，我们基本上试图

the chinese unfair practice using its state subsidy uses the power to 阻止中国的不公平做法，使用其 国家补贴使用权力

monopolize certain trade and we will win so that's why you 垄断某些贸易 ，我们将获胜，这就是为什么你

mentioned about the level in the playing field that's very 提到 了 比赛场地很

important so in the end you think the jugular teacher 重要， 所以最后你觉得中国的颈静脉

of china the how how do you say it the juko teach um of china wouldn't 老师怎么样哟 你说 中国的juko老师不会

succeed for example they the chinese government 成功 ，例如他们中国

has supported huawei so much and they gave them all the 政府非常支持华为 ，他们给了他们所有的

resources and and stuff like that in the end you think 资源 和类似的东西，最后你认为

this approach won't work this approach won't work and also 这种方法行不通 这种方法赢了 行不通，而且

definitely is actually against the international 实际上确实违反了 国际

free market system it should be stopped right 自由市场体系，应该停止它，

so huawei is a company with tremendous government support and 因此华为是一家拥有巨大政府支持的公司，

with that support they can actually compete 有了这种支持，他们实际上可以

easily against its rivals uh globally and so before long they could easily 轻松地在全球范围内与其竞争对手竞争 ，所以不久之后他们就可以轻松地

just kick out of eriksen and nokia 把埃里克森和诺基亚

and even samsung from the global competition because they have a powerful 甚至三星踢出全球 竞争，因为他们有一个强大的

government with enormous almost unlimited economic 政府 ，拥有几乎无限的经济

uh backing right so that's not fair and also it's 支持 权，所以这是不公平的，而且也

against uh the fundamentals of free market 违背了 呃自由市场体系的基本原则，

system um that should not be allowed the u.s 不应该被允许美国

learned lesson early on you know there's a zte 很 早就吸取了教训你知道有一个中兴

i think it's chinese zhongxin zte was a 100 owned by the chinese government 我认为是中国的中兴中兴是 中国政府拥有的100

and it did something wrong against against the 它 违反了美国

u.s law so the u.s government defined it with the enormous amount and ziti 法律，因此美国政府将其定义 为巨额金额，ziti

didn't care because they say okay we'll pay it 不在乎，因为他们说好的，我们会 付钱

that's because it's not a company that pays the fine 那是因为这不是支付罚款的公司，

it's a chinese government that pays the fund so free market rule 而是支付罚款的中国政府 基金这样的自由市场规则

doesn't even apply to a state sponsored economic operation and that's 甚至不适用于国家 资助的经济运作，这就是

why the chinese economic system is 为什么中国经济体系

fundamentally incompatible with global free market system and that 与全球自由市场体系根本不相容，

has to be changed people have to address that 必须改变人们必须

from the macro level we cannot continue pretending 从宏观层面解决这个问题，我们不能继续

that china is a free market system we can trade as if it's just one of many 假装中国是一个自由市场体系，我们 可以交易，就好像它只是众多

rivals no major nation no major western 竞争对手之一 没有主要国家 没有主要的西方

industrial nation no major insta international financial 工业国家 没有主要的 insta 国际金融

economic institution recognize china's economy as a free 经济机构 承认中国经济是自由

market economy and that's why we have to really 市场经济 ，这就是为什么我们必须真正

apply our industrial and economic policies 应用 我们的工业和经济 政策

to conform with that reality that fact that chinese economy is not a 要符合 中国经济不是

free market economy yeah it's so amazing how the world's 自由市场经济这一 事实，是的

view on china has changed since president nixon 自从尼克松总统访问中国以来，世界对中国的看法发生了多么惊人的变化

visited china and china opened up in the 1970s for decades the world's ，中国 在 1970 年代开放了几十年，世界的

consensus has been you know the rights of china was good 共识是 你知道中国的权利是好的

and and that changed like almost like overnight to people ，而且这对人们来说几乎像一夜之间改变了

and i you i know you are in the midst of this and tell me 我你我知道你在 这中间告诉

how this policy policy this reorder of china policy came about 我这个政策政策这个对 中国政策的重新排序是如何发生的

okay so um i think the world has tremendous good wishes 所以我认为世界对中国人民有着 巨大的美好愿望

for the chinese people the rise of china actually 中国的崛起 实际上

is a great thing for the world you have so many people who are now better off 是一件好事 世界上有 这么多人现在生活得更好

they're engaged in economic operations globally and so i think we all benefit 他们在 全球范围内从事经济活动 所以我认为我们都从中受益

from that the so since richard nixon's visit to 所以自从理查德尼克松

china in 1972 the world has changed as you said um 1972 年访问中国以来 ，世界已经发生了变化，正如你所说的，

cold war is over a global power limit will amendment a 冷战是 全球权力限制 将修正

realignment has occurred so that those were tremendous 重新调整已经发生，所以那些 是巨大的

changes uh and that we we have embraced with a great delight and agree 变化，我们 非常高兴地接受并同意

the coming of information age and computer age and space cyber tremendous 信息时代和通信技术的到来 计算机时代和空间网络

progress on the material level but there are some 在物质层面的巨大进步，但

there are some also continuity and constances that have not 有一些也有一些 连续性和恒定性没有

changed and number one the biggest consistency 改变 ，第一最大的一致性

big biggest continuity is that china still is ruled by the same 大最大的连续性 是中国仍然由同一个

marxist then it is the political party that party 马克思主义者统治然后是政治 那个党那个党

still embraces and practices the exactly the same kind of 仍然拥护和实行 完全相同的

controlling dictatorial uh uh mechanism um in china as if 控制独裁 机制嗯在中国好像

has china has not changed right so the fundamentals of china's political system 没有改变所以 中国的政治制度的基本面

remains the same despite the fact that materially 保持不变 尽管事实上

economically china has changed dramatically 中国在物质经济上已经发生了 巨大的变化，

so this is probably one of the biggest irony of our 所以 这可能是我们这个时代最大的 讽刺之一

our times and and also that irony is very clearly felt ，而且 这种讽刺

not only in china but increasingly is failed 不仅在中国明显感受到，而且在国际上也越来越 失败，

internationally because as china rises economically 因为随着中国 经济

china's model of governance the fact that china is still ruled by marxist 的崛起，中国的治理模式 中国仍然由马克思

lenin's the party with a inet control 列宁的统治 有控制

urge to rule the country with iron fist and with this normal and what they 欲以铁腕统治国家的党 很正常，他们

consider as a regular and a normal normative 认为的常规和正常的规范

methods such as propaganda united front party system 方法，例如宣传 统战党制

and population control and all those things is now spilling 和人口控制 等等，现在正在蔓延

over to the international arena so 到国际舞台上，

that's why people were looking at the rise of china with tremendous sense of 这就是为什么人们 以极大的意识看待中国的崛起

uncertainty and even fear because china's marching into the global 不确定性甚至恐惧， 因为中国正在走向全球

stage uh is also um um uh this at the same time it also 舞台呃也是呃呃 这个同时它也

brings the uh to the world something that china 给世界带来了呃中国

has been doing domestically for decades and that's something that we cannot 几十年来一直在国内做 的事情，这是我们

really uh tolerate and then during the trump administration 真的不能容忍 和 然后在特朗普政府期间，

this was failed very clearly and we abandoned the illusion 这非常明显地失败了 ，我们

somehow free market system in the world and the virtue of democracy would 以某种方式放弃了世界上自由市场体系的幻想 ，民主的美德将

inspire the chinese communist leadership to change 激励中国共产党领导层 改变

to be more liberal to make it the more responsible stakeholder ，变得更加自由，使其成为更 负责任的利益相关者，

as the cliche goes and that is an absolute illusion 正如陈词滥调 那是一种 绝对的幻觉

and has been dashed by not only the reality but also by the rhetoric of ， 不仅被现实打破，还被花言巧语击破

the chinese communist party you listen to xi jinping 中国共产党你 听习近平说

he has tremendous hubris and his commitment to 他非常狂妄，他 对

communist ideology is unshaken he's talking every day in china about wu wang 共产主义意识形态的承诺是坚定不移的，他 在中国每天都在谈论吴旺

tuition don't forget that your original 学费 ，别忘了你最初的

commitment what is the original commitment 承诺什么是最初的 承诺，

basically is the communist ideology the chinese 基本上是共产主义意识形态 中国

communist marxist leninist commitment to that kind of ideology 共产主义马克思列宁主义 对那种意识形态的承诺，

that to make china the leader the leading force 即为了 使中国成为全球社会主义

of the ultimate triumph of global socialism he make the speeches 最终胜利的领导力量， 他在所有地方发表演讲

all the places and it is actually foolish for the world ，世界上的决策者实际上是愚蠢的，

for policymakers uh to ignore that reality and their rhetoric so um uh 呃，无视 这一现实和 他们的言辞所以嗯嗯

so this is this is something that we have to realize and i think you know 所以这是我们 必须意识到的事情，我想你知道

during the trump administration under the leadership particularly of uh 在特朗普政府 特别是在呃国务卿蓬佩奥的领导下，

secretary pompeo we at the state department had the 我们在国务院对这一切进行了

extensive discussion about all this and um and i think you know we had the 广泛的讨论 ，嗯，我认为 你知道我们已经

collective realization that something had to be done and 集体 意识到必须做

something has to be done because partly what we have been doing before 一些事情并且必须做一些事情 e 因为我们之前所做的部分是

had failed right so that failure was not only recognized by the 失败的，所以 失败不仅被

republicans also by democrats right many of the democrats who are now 共和党人也被民主党人承认 ，许多现在被

empowered in charge of asian policy will first come out to say no our 授权负责亚洲政策的民主党人 会首先站出来说不我们的

engagement policy with china with the hope that china would would 接触政策 中国希望中国

become more liberal more like us has failed and not failure had caused 变得更自由，更像 我们一样失败了，而不是失败给他们造成

them uh dearly and now it's time for us to re-engage china 了巨大的损失，现在是我们

from the totally different perspective so 从完全不同的角度重新接触中国的时候了，

and we have a set up we set up a new set of rules 所以我们已经建立了一个设置 例如，一套新 的规则

or reciprocity for example is one of them and we also 或互惠就是其中 之一，我们还

focus on results not just the bankrupt and dialogues 关注结果，而不仅仅是破产 和对话

and so we see through that and i think you know we did a tremendous ，所以我们看透了这一点 ，我想你知道我们对美国人民做了巨大的

good to the american people right i'm just 好事 ，我只是

curious when did you start to say china is still 好奇 你什么时候开始说中国仍然

ruled by marxist leninist power because i think 被 马克思列宁主义统治，因为我认为

just a few years ago probably a big percentage 就在几年前

the american leadership or the world leadership would not buy that they think ，美国领导层或世界 领导层可能有很大一部分不会购买 他们认为

oh china has already changed when did you start to say that and then 哦中国已经改变了 ，你什么时候开始这么说然后

people start to accept well we say that you know when i went to 人们开始 接受我们说你知道当我

the state department you know and i worked with pompeo and 去国务院的时候你 知道我和蓬佩奥一起工作

soon after that we had some discussions and he began to 不久之后我们进行了一些 讨论 他

to use those uh the terms 开始使用那些呃这些术语，

it's a little bit a little bit surprising to me because americans were 这 让我有点惊讶，因为美国人

generally in general averse to using terms like marxist leninist party to 普遍反对 使用像马克思列宁主义政党这样的术语来

designate something that they were familiar during 指代 他们在冷战期间熟悉的东西

the cold war they had this unrealistic 他们有这种不切实际的

realization that with the downfall of the burning war communism 认识 随着燃烧的战争共产

was over marxian lenin is no longer fashionable 主义的 垮台，马克思列宁现在不再流行

now i have to say in china that is true because most people 了，我不得不在中国 说这是真的，因为

majority of people in china among the people they don't believe in 大多数人在中国的大多数人中， 他们不再相信

marxian lands anymore they were very enthusiastically pursuing 马克思的土地了， 他们非常热情 追求

all the major status symbols of bourgeois lifestyle 资产阶级生活方式的所有主要身份象征，

right cars housing fancy clothes and you know 右车装有花哨的衣服，你 知道

a major western brand of clothing and sportswear so 一个主要的西方 服装和运动品牌 耳朵所以

those things are basically what occupied the ordinary 那些东西基本上是占领 了普通

chinese people but the chinese people are priorities in china 中国人，但中国人 是中国的优先事项

the people in charge of the whole big country the people who control 负责整个大 国的人控制中国

all the assets assets in china is a very small 所有资产资产的人是中国共产党的一个 很小的

relatively small group of chinese communist party elites 相对较小的群体 精英们

they are the diehard believers of marxism leninism 他们是 马克思列宁主义的铁杆信徒

they were the ones who decides where the country goes and they have total control 他们是决定 国家去向的人 他们掌握着完全控制

information the information actually is very 信息 信息实际上

important for us to to to understand because the 对我们理解非常重要，因为

information control the firewall is so complete that 信息控制 防火墙是如此完整，以至于

ordinary chinese people do not have the a diverse sources 普通中国人 没有多样化

of information frame to make their judgment 的信息框架来使他们的

uh very accurate so they're bombarded with this information by the chinese 判断非常准确，所以他们 被中国

government government propaganda machines with that 政府 政府宣传机器用这些信息轰炸，

obviously their judgment inside china is not very 显然 他们在中国的判断有时不是

very accurate sometimes particularly when it comes to issues like uyghurs 很准确，尤其是 在涉及到 像维吾尔

and like the u.s true intention of engaging china 人和像美国这样的问题 en的真实意图 衡量中国

and so everything related to the united states 以及与美国有关的一切

is being misre-interpreted and misinformed 都被曲解和 误导

deliberately misinformed i would say so the weaponized information and i 故意误导我会这么说 武器化的信息 我

think that's one of the things that that that 认为这是我们真正需要重新考虑的事情之一

we we really have to re uh uh make a distinction on number one 呃呃在数字上进行区分

the chinese people do not to no longer believe in marx and 一个中国人民 不再相信马克思和

norwegianism on other hand the the group of people that really 挪威主义 另一方面中国真正重要的一群人

matter in china do believe it so that's why 确实相信它所以这就是 为什么

we make our policy we talk about the chinese communist party you pay 我们制定我们的政策我们谈论 中国共产党你付钱

you pay anything closer to what secretary pompeo's speeches 你付钱更接近 蓬佩奥国务卿在国务院的时候的讲话

when he was uh at the state department he always referred to the chinese ， 他总是把中国

government as a chinese communist party the party controls the government he um 政府说成是中国共产党 ，党控制着政府，他嗯，

so that's very accurate he always refers to 所以很准确，他总是说

xi jinping as general secretary of china's communist party he never calls 习近平是 中国共产党的总书记，他 从来没有

the president in the same way that we never call i 像我们在里根时代那样称呼总统，我的

mean during reagan years for example president reagan never called gorbachev 意思是在里根时代，例如 里根总统从来没有打电话 戈尔巴乔夫

the president of soviet union he was always general secretary ，苏联总统， 他一直是

gorbachev and that's very accurate and i think you 戈尔巴乔夫总书记 ，这是非常准确的，我想你

know we're not trying to ideologicalizing uh 知道我们不是在试图 意识形态化呃呃

um uh the reality we're just trying to describe in the reality 呃我们只是 试图在现实中准确地描述现实

accurately that's what xi jinping is so um we based our china policy 这就是习近平所说 的 嗯，我们的对华政策

on something that's very accurate some realistic and i think we did a good 基于一些非常准确 和现实的东西，我认为我们做了一件

thing you mentioned president reagan i think 好事， 你提到里根总统我想

uh what i think about president reagan was 呃 我对里根总统的看法是

um you know the biden administration talks 呃 你知道拜登政府谈论

about you know working with allies and uh i 你知道与盟友合作，呃 我的

mean for majority of the people i think this 意思是 对大多数人来说，我认为这

is they are all for working with allies but i think working 是他们都是为了 与盟友合作，但我认为

with allies and working with allies could be different so you either you 与盟友合作和与盟友合作 可能会有所不同，所以你要么

could have a reagan mentality where you believe 有 一种里根的心态，你

the soviet union is the evil empire with the name of the game being way when 认为苏联是邪恶的帝国 游戏的名称是他们输球时的方式，

they lose or you could have another mentality 或者您可能有另一种心态

where you think china is only a normal rival so you ，您认为 中国只是一个普通的竞争对手，因此您

compete with them in some areas and work with them in others 与之竞争 他们在某些领域 并在其他领域与他们合作

when dealing with today's china dealing with today's 处理今天的中国 处理今天

communist party of china which mentality do you think 的中国共产党 你认为

we should adopt i think you know president reagan was a great president 我们应该采用哪种心态 我想你知道 里根总统是一位伟大的总统

for a number of reasons one of the most important ones i think is because of his ，原因有很多 最重要的原因之一 我认为是因为他有

ability to communicate with the american people 能力 与美国人民交流

some very fundamental truth not only about america but also about 一些非常基本的真相， 不仅关于美国，而且关于

the america's opponents right adversaries 美国的反对者的右翼对手，

he called the soviet union evil empire and it told americans why 他称之为苏联邪恶帝国 ，它告诉美国人为什么

and that ability to communicate with the american people 以及与美国人交流的能力 人们

in unambiguous terms and that's very important 用明确的术语表达，这非常 重要

and i think american presidents should really learn from him ，我认为美国总统应该 真正向他学习，

that's why he was called a great communicator 这就是为什么他被称为伟大的 沟通者，

so that's number one number two about working with allies 所以这是 与盟友合作的第二大问题，

you know funny thing is 你知道有趣的是，

if we keep talking about working with allies we may run the risk 如果我们继续谈论与 盟友合作 作为世界民主国家的领导者，可能会

of shuriken americans risk responsibility as a leader of 冒着美国手里剑的风险

world democracies for whatever reason you like it or not america is a country 不管 你喜欢与否，美国是一个重要的

of consequence we are a big country we're leading the 国家， 我们是一个大国，我们

world in many many ways not just economic not just the military 在很多方面都领先世界， 不仅在经济方面，不仅在军事

powers but also we are the most outspoken country 实力方面，而且 我们还是全球反对侵犯人权行为最直言不讳的国家

against human rights violations globally

we're the country that was most generous whenever there is a natural disasters “ 当世界上发生自然灾害时，是最慷慨

in the world that occur we're the countries that use our tremendous 的国家吗？我们 是利用我们

commitment to global peace to make sure that blockchain will be minimized right 对全球和平的巨大承诺来 确保区块链将被最小化的国家，

so our outreach is global uh 所以 我们的外展是全球性的，嗯，

if we keep talking about working with allies sometimes people just use 如果我们保持 谈论与 盟友合作有时人们

the excuse not to lead not to decide we have to be really 只是借口不领导 而不是决定我们必须真正

cognizant of the market as a leadership role 认识到市场作为领导 角色

and the world has to have the united states ，世界必须让

at the forefront for freedom and this is basically the history of the world for 美国站在自由的最前沿，这 基本上就是历史

the last over 100 years has proven this right so 过去 100 多年的世界已经证明了这一点，所以

we have to work with allies but we have to take the lead right you have to 我们必须与盟友合作，但我们 必须带头，你必须

balance those two you can balance the two 平衡这两者，你可以 平衡这 两个

allies are enormously important for us and we 盟友对我们来说非常重要，我们

um it is also a complete misstatement it's it's it's a wrong idea that somehow 嗯，这也是一个完全 错误的说法，

the trump administration totally abandoned 特朗普政府以某种方式完全 抛弃

our allies we didn't we tried to convince our allies that china posed the 了我们的盟友是错误的想法，我们不是我们试图 说服我们的盟友中国构成了

most dangerous threats to western democracy 最 危险的威胁 从西方民主

to international system because president trump had the unique 到国际体系， 因为特朗普总统具有独特的

personality many of our allies did not really like 个性 ，我们的许多盟友并不真正喜欢

him so they confused what americans message 他， 所以他们将美国人的信息

with the messenger and that is president trump 与特朗普总统的信使混淆，

so they instinctively resist our call to face the china challenge 所以他们本能地抵制 我们面对全球性中国挑战的呼吁

which was global so it's not only to us it's to 所以这不仅对我们也是对

them too so we spend quite a bit of efforts to to 他们， 所以我们花了很多努力

basically talk to our allies to clarify our position and in the end 基本上和我们的盟友交谈 以澄清我们的立场，最终

um after the uh outbreak of the covet and more and more allies took our side 嗯在觊觎的爆发之后 ，越来越多的盟友站在我们一边

and then they came around and so so we we probably did more in sort of ， 然后他们来了， 所以我们可能做了更多的事情，

putting allies together to face china challenge so much so at 把盟友放在一 起来面对中国的挑战，所以在

the time of the power transfer in january 2020 p 的时候 2020 年 1 月转移

2021 i should say our major allies particularly our later 2021 我应该说 我们的主要盟友，特别是我们后来的

nato allies have issued really major statements and 北约盟国 已经发表了非常重要的声明，并

taking specific actions to join us in combating the china threat 采取了具体 行动与我们一起打击中国威胁

you have nato's talking about nato leaders ， 北约正在谈论北约领导人

talking about how to get involved in this peace and security in asia pacific 谈论如何参与 这种和平 以及南中国海亚太地区的安全，

in south china sea we did that right so working with 我们做得对，所以与

ally is good but we have to understand that 盟友合作很好，但我们必须明白 ，

america has to take the leadership of the role 美国必须发挥 领导作用，

number two allies are important but allies the allies they 第二个盟友 很重要，但盟友，盟友，他们

have their own domestic policies they have their 有 自己的国内政策。 有

own national interests many of the allies want to close up to 自己的国家利益， 许多盟国想

the chinese so they could have a sizeable market 接近中国，这样

share when the u.s standing up really tough on 当美国对中国采取强硬立场时，他们可以获得相当大的市场份额，

china so many of the allies were very frankly very optimistic 所以许多盟国 坦率地说非常乐观，

right they don't necessarily go along with us on china policy 他们不一定会去 和我们一起讨论对华政策

so which comes to my second point that is 所以这是我的第二点，那 就是

when we're working with allies we have to 当我们与盟友合作时，我们必须

conduct america first policy so we have to work with ally in dealing 首先引导美国 政策， 所以我们必须与盟友合作

with our common mission to combat the common threats 处理我们的共同 使命，以打击

we did this during the cold working soviet union we're now dealing with 我们在冷战苏联期间所做的共同威胁， 我们现在正在与中国打交道，

china right chinese communist party but 中国共产党，但

america has our national interest too so we must really take care of america 美国也有我们的国家利益，所以 我们必须真的 首先照顾美国

first many of our allies they work with china 他们与中国合作的许多盟友

against our interest so we have to be very 违背 了我们的利益，所以我们必须非常

careful on blindly championing working with 小心 ，盲目地支持无条件地与盟友合作，

allies unconditionally so that's why america 这就是为什么美国

first is always always the first principle 优先 始终是美国

of the us government operation that should be and 政府运作的首要原则， 应该和

i think we did that obviously i hope the new administration will also keep that 我认为我们显然这样做了我希望 新政府也能牢记

in mind even though they don't want to say it 这一点， 即使他们不想说，

but you know listen you know there are the 但你知道听你知道

they represent american voters so i mean we should all 他们代表美国选民所以我的意思是 我们都应该

carry out america first that said what are the common misunderstandings of 首先执行美国 那就是说 我们的盟友对美国优先政策的常见误解是什么，

the american first policy from our allies well i think the the 我认为美国冷杉是

biggest misunderstanding that american first policy is equal to 最大的误解 st政策等于

isolationism it's not uh america first doesn't necessarily mean 孤立主义 它不是呃 美国优先并不一定

that america is going to isolate itself american forces is not the same as 意味着美国要孤立自己 美国的力量与

america only we cannot really completely extricate 美国不同 只是 我们不能真正完全

ourselves from the global affairs so 从全球事务中解脱出来 所以

because america as i say is a global leader in many many aspects 因为我所说的美国是一个 在

of our common life right not just the military we're all over the world but 我们共同生活的许多方面都是全球领导者，不仅是 军队，我们遍布世界各地，

also economic engagement right our american companies are all over the 还有经济参与权， 我们的美国公司遍布

place google facebook twitter they're global companies 各地 google facebook twitter 他们是

multinationals so we cannot really completely execute 跨国公司， 所以我们无法真正完全执行

escalate ourselves from global affairs number one

um for political purposes for domestic political reasons 出于国内政治原因，出于政治目的，将自己从全球事务提升到第一位，

there's always the labeling of the america first as isolationism 总是将 美国首先贴上孤立

that's not true so that's biggest misunderstanding 主义的标签，这是不正确的，所以从我的角度来看，这是最大的 误解

from my perspective

you